tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post3216831981988261373..comments2023-06-20T02:25:36.578-07:00Comments on The Scholar's Stage: Spengler and the Search for a Science of Human CultureT. Greerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04621529800248145193noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-50954063925857963052020-12-18T09:04:20.144-08:002020-12-18T09:04:20.144-08:00I don't find the difference between Chinese re...I don't find the difference between Chinese rejection of sexual rituals and Tibetan adoption of sexual rituals to pose much of a challenge to the notion of attractors; this just suggests that attractors have dimension. Leaning on the systems theory a little more, it could either be a basin of attraction <i>or</i> a "hill of repulsion" but either way is culturally significant. A ryan_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12133590962954326955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-64966833614031654982020-12-17T10:38:30.113-08:002020-12-17T10:38:30.113-08:00Taking up Grant K's sensible points - the prob...Taking up Grant K's sensible points - the problem with human social stuff is that it comprises multiple sites of Darwinian selection which are occurring simultaneously and not necessarily in sync: just to cite a random few 'levels': there is individual level status / virtue signalling tied to the biological sexual selection market; there is international competition between nation Richard Lewisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-684698680874974792020-12-16T18:33:55.317-08:002020-12-16T18:33:55.317-08:00Yes all good points. I somewhat overstated my case...Yes all good points. I somewhat overstated my case. Certainly all the actual dynamics of cultural transmission are subject to empirical inquiry and may result in (perhaps even robust) predictive power for cultural evolution. <br /><br />But as a basic mathematical fact, the actual causes of behaviors of emergent, non-deterministic (chaotic) systems are inherently the kinds of things that cover Grant K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04276813401730978930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-2891623333667430652020-12-16T16:58:20.727-08:002020-12-16T16:58:20.727-08:00> The California path is a little easier to see...> The California path is a little easier to see: they might argue that in a decentralized yet highly urbanized political order, heterodoxy was “fit” ... But this account would add little of value but a shallow Darwinian framing, <br /><br />This is a feature not a bug. Existing explanations are often Darwinian in all but name. ("The times suited X", means "X was Darwinanly fit toadworriernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-60045255183870734052020-12-16T16:19:35.138-08:002020-12-16T16:19:35.138-08:00Reminds me of what I've heard of Scott's n...Reminds me of what I've heard of Scott's notion of <i>legibility</i>. As I understand it, Scott argues that most polities strive to impose some sort of concreteness on their subjects. A reification of names perhaps. Retconned onto the work of Spengler and those within the particular school of ideational conceits he emerged from and in, this would make the course of a "civilization&lcreeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15899422725926423584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-66179520626600151092020-12-16T14:28:19.750-08:002020-12-16T14:28:19.750-08:00Grant--
Agree that the cultural evolution lines o...Grant--<br /><br />Agree that the cultural evolution lines of research are quite useful in what they are able to accomplish, even if there are gaps in what they have not been able to work out yet. But I think they might be able to get to what I seek without too much trouble. The Paris school idea about cultural attractors, in particular, seem like useful way to conceptualize many of the T. Greerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04621529800248145193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-37604963479547336942020-12-15T17:02:36.643-08:002020-12-15T17:02:36.643-08:00You're setting the bar awfully high for the ex...You're setting the bar awfully high for the explanatory power of cultural evolution!<br /><br />I think an epistemic re-calibration is in order. Any emergent or evolutionary system of any complexity will be subject to path dependency, dependence on minor perturbations ("butterfly effect"), evolutionary co-dependency with its environment, and other chaotic systems dynamics such that Grant K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04276813401730978930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-21452952793033733712020-12-15T12:04:39.423-08:002020-12-15T12:04:39.423-08:00Peter Turchin's Cliodynamics does at least hav...Peter Turchin's Cliodynamics does at least have a dynamic model. He maybe pushing one general (almost biological) factor, that of elite overproduction, a bit further than it can go as a singular explanation, but it does seem to have reasonable predictive elements to it that can be verified going forward.<br /><br />I should add that elite overproduction isn't stated as a singular cause, russell1200https://www.blogger.com/profile/16258915475311426433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-6543114072488435542020-12-15T06:10:11.982-08:002020-12-15T06:10:11.982-08:00I studied no social science or humanities (am an e...I studied no social science or humanities (am an engineer) but I think the real value of Spengler's Decline of the West is not what it says but the cultural impact it has had, and the cultural environment that led to its writing. After all the talk of the longest century about technological and societal progress, the World War has shattered all belief in the Western civilization in many Emrah Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00649264377639837936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7378807093271153119.post-67300274882816731562020-12-15T03:57:40.510-08:002020-12-15T03:57:40.510-08:00I recently finished reading Henrich’s WEIRD people...I recently finished reading Henrich’s WEIRD people book and I think he addresses some of your concerns regarding the California School approach to cultural divergence.<br /><br />“They cannot tell us why the Christians of New England and North Carolina share some beliefs and practices in common, but not all, nor why some aspects of Neoconfucianism were easy to export to Korea, Japan, and Vietnam,David Ninoreply@blogger.com